*The following blog post was first seen here on July 13, 2015 and now re-posted with updated photos.
This is a personal message for those who seek to divide the Southern people and especially those honorable defenders of Southern-Confederate historical heritage.
Early this year, a waste of a human life and white supremacist mass murderer whose name I won't mention here, driven by his own sick philosophies on race to kill nine innocent people who welcomed him into their church as a brother, and prayed with him while the dirty little coward pretended and plotted their deaths.
The same lowlife who was forgiven for his ugly, unspeakable act of violence by the very families of his nine victims -- the truly Christian and honorable people who lost their loved ones at the hands of this hateful hypocrite.
The inhuman monster who saw the Dixie Cross (battle flag) only as a tool of his own twisted racist idealism with no true respect for its proper meaning as a cultural symbol of Southern identity, nor for the men of all races and religious faiths who served under it in defense of their Southern homeland.
These are anti-Confederate heritage reactionaries and Leftist drones. These people are typical of all other politically correct fascists: all mouth and no apparent ability to learn or grow emotionally beyond a grade school level.
These people are the type that agree with how people who think like that monster view the Dixie Cross banner: that it is solely a symbol of evil, hate and racism that belongs in the unworthy hands of white supremacist ideologues.
These are the people who are so full of anger and self-righteousness they neglect to realize that by accepting how white supremacists view that flag and rejecting how the defenders of Confederate heritage support it as a living Southern symbol that promotes positive attributes, they have chosen to support people like Dylann Roof and the ideals represented by people like him -- ideals these cultural vandals claim to oppose.
These are the cultural fascists who wish to silence Americans who disagree with them and dictate their views about the South and its symbols as the only correct views.
Collectively these people: white supremacists, Liberal regressives, cultural reactionaries, self-hating Confederate descendants, and others like them -- an Axis of Fascism and Regression -- who view people as stereotypes, or groups of "victims" seek to divide the Southern people by race, to label people who do not accept their wrong-thinking viewpoints, and to lay claim to symbols of honor that they have moral right to. All to satisfy misguided ideals about racial superiority, or racial guilt mentalities.
Humm....well now, let's see how that's been working out for y'all....
(Blogger's note: All of the following images were captured after the events of June 17, 2015.)
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| Americana, Brazil. 2015. |
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| RIP Mr. Anthony Hervey. |
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| US soldiers in Afghanistan. |
Well guess what haters? Looks like all of y'all are failing....BIG TIME!
This blogger for one could not be any happier!
The true Southern people and the real descendants of Confederate soldiers have spoken. The proud Sons and Daughters of Dixie are all brothers and sisters, all ONE SOUTHERN PEOPLE united by our common Southern-Confederate historical heritage, regardless of the color of our skin.
To all those extremists who seek to divide us - white supremacists and Leftist ideologues alike - you will never prevail! Our love of heritage and family as we choose to define it is much stronger than your hatred, or misappropriation of it.
To all those extremists who seek to divide us - white supremacists and Leftist ideologues alike - you will never prevail! Our love of heritage and family as we choose to define it is much stronger than your hatred, or misappropriation of it.
God Bless Dixie.
God Bless ALL Southern-Born People.
God Bless TRUE Southern Heritage.
And Above All God Bless America!
36 comments:
Great photo-essay, Carl! You rock!
Thank you Connie!
I believe that those photos are more than enough proof of how morally bankrupt, as well as intellectually flawed both the white supremacist dogma that drove Mr. Roof and the so-called "politically correct" conformist mindsets truly are.
They also serve to demonstrate quite clearly that those of us who honor the true heritage of that flag come from all walks of Southern life and stand together in support of each other and our God-given belief in our individual identity.
We are all so much more than the stereotypes some would label us, and certainly share the same view of a heritage that has far outgrown the narrow ideals expressed by the acolytes of backward thinking concepts like racial hatred and racial guilt respectively.
Meanwhile – Back at the War: This had better be Anonymous because it is going to seem weird.
I am Jewish by way of the Deep South and from a prominent Southern family that helped fight for Civil Rights. Somewhere back there we did have an ancestor who fought for the Confederacy (and was wounded) because his state was being invaded. He was an immigrant of the merchant class and, as far as we know, did not own slaves.
Yet I am disturbed by the hijacking of Southern identity by White Supremacists and Neo Nazis. One goes on line and finds very extremist views such as those of the SC shooter, with all kinds of Nazi signs and Hitler etc. etc. This is not the way that I understood the South from my father, who grew up in the 30s and 40s, who disagreed with Jim Crow laws, but still believed that we should be able to play “Dixie” at football games, and I’m sure he wouldn’t be happy with the ‘Dukes of Hazard’ being banned, for suddenly being “Politically Incorrect”.
Members of these right-wing, so-called pro-Southern groups, on-line seem almost to be much more extreme than the original Confederacy. Personally, these are not the views that I have run into, and I’ve lived in the South all my life.
(I’m not defending slavery, but look at the world at that time – there was slavery in S. America, Serfdom in Russian, European Colonial rule exploiting the natives in much of the world, etc.). Once I went on a tour in Richmond, and they said that Jefferson Davis even had a Jewish Secy of State serving in the Conf. Gov., and that despite antisemitism, Davis thought he was a smart guy and kept him on. This would NOT have happened in Nazi Germany. And then I read that Lincoln went and exterminated some Sioux Indians somewhere in the now mid-West over a land dispute. Most of my Jewish ancestors who came to America in the 1830, 40s, and later 1870s, wound up in the South, although a few may have remained up North. If it had been really that inhospitable, they all could have easily remained in the North East.
If the South had won, it would be my country. My father (a Civil War historian from the Deep South) believed that it was better as it turned out in term of us becoming a world power and unity in WWI and WWII etc. etc., but then he also said once that he thought if the South had won, more moderates would have come out to power. There wouldn’t have been the power of the Klan, because we wouldn’t have been defeated, and that slavery would have gone away for economic reasons at least within a few decades.
So anyway, I am going to see who shows up on this site. If it just turns out to be another one of these White Supremacist sites, don’t bother to contact me. Personally, in my home state, I like seeing streets and statues of Lee, Jackson, Stuart, Mosby, etc. It is part of my state’s identify, and I do not want to see if purged like something under Stalinist Russia.
Thank you for your review Mr. (or Miss) Anonymous.
My ancestors were Ulster Irish (and possibly Scots Irish) who came to the South via the Great Wagon Trail from Pennsylvania where they landed, and settled in South Carolina and Alabama. Many of them fought in the Southern Campaign of the American Revolutionary War. My own ancestors who later served in the War Between The States (on both sides apparently) did not own slaves. My own great-great grandfather was a farmer from northern Alabama who died in the war at Chickamauga, GA on Sept. 19, 1863.
My father was also quite proudly Southern, much like your father, who likewise shared the same views on Civil Rights in regards to segregation - he actually sat with a group of young black people at a lunch counter that was "white only" once upon a time. Yet he also loved "Dixie" and was proud of his ancestry and tried to instill the same pride in me. I actually came to it in my late teens more or less after going through a rough patch, but that's a long story.
Like you I am disgusted with how Southern identity is hijacked by people who express scientifically dis-guarded ideals of racial supremacy. Even more so in the hands of mindless authoritarian fascists like Neo-Nazis, considering that the CSA's ideas of States Rights and sovereignty over limited federal power are a complete 180 from the ideals of totalitarian dictatorship expressed by Nazism. The truth is that Jeff Davis and other Confederate leaders would have considered Hitler the anti-Christ and Nazi Germany to be the worst sort of tyranny imaginable. Heck, look what they thought of Lincoln and company, and all ole Abe did was suspend a few writs of habeus corpus and freedom of the press. In the hands of a Neo-Nazi the battle flag has no meaning. The sight alone is an obscenity and an insult to all Southerners no matter what blood or skin color they were who served honorably under that flag.
I know what you mean about some of the more radical elements of the pro-South groups. The so-called "neo-Confederates" (a term I consider nonsense regardless who uses it) these Southern Nationalists who have this idea of a separate Southern nation, and that being an "American" is something oppressive. There are not very many of them - probably less than 5% of those who support this movement share those viewpoints - but they can be vocal and they are free to believe that silly pipe dream if they want. I doubt, even if they somehow had the political clout to get what they wanted, that the South would reform the CSA under that same name, or that every Leftist in the Southland would just pack up and leave. Same thing with the Leftist Establishment, both have these foolish ideas of a utopia that humanity simply can never achieve.
The only way I could ever see myself actually support the idea of a separate Southern nation would be if I believed that there was no longer any hope for the USA as a whole....and I am nowhere near that place yet.
No, I too am a proud American and a US citizen and wish to stay one. Of course, being proudly American does not mean being blindly loyal to government, or supporting intrusion by federal power into all walks of life and regulating every part of our existence. Being an American is about much more than just that. To me its about believing in the ideals of the Constitution first and foremost, and recognizing that God gives us our rights, not government. Being a Southerner and an American respectively are more or less one in the same. The South may have its own culture and sense of identity that is unique from the rest of the USA, but the principles of how we see government, God, freedom and individual liberty are all uniquely American. That is what these Southern nationalists tend to overlook at times. Even our Confederate ancestors never denied themselves the proud title of American.
You are also right about the men from the South who honorably served in this country's armed services during the wars since the WBTS: the descendants of both the Union and the Confederates, who literally saved this world and liberated it from Nazi fascism and German imperialism, and ultimately checked Soviet communism. In that regard it is well that there was one American nation rather than two separate ones.
I likewise agree that while a South that won the war would not have been a utopian ideal, it also would not have been the sort of apartheid hell others things either. Slavery would have died within a decade of the end of the war regardless, and possibly a civil rights movement would still have been necessary, but not nearly as violent as the reactionary crap that happened in the real history. Now I am not sure if States Rights would be what it was, or if federal power would still have found a way to become intrusive under that system either, but then again we can never really know the truth.
I take it from your mentioning of Lee, Jackson, Stuart and Mosby's statues you must be either Virginian or West Virginian. I've been to both states and loved the land up there. I also take what you mean about a "Stalinist Purge" of identity and heritage. Cultural genocide. The Left's way to make everyone conform and think like them, or simply to shut up opposition. I care too much about my individual identity to ever be a conformist myself. And I think little of people who believe that someone has to share their political and social views without question otherwise they should be bullied and called racist or hateful if they disagree.
I admit I am Conservative, Christian and proudly Southern, and proudly from Anglo-Celtic descent. That does not mean I think I'm better than anyone else, or that I think I should be put above anyone else either. It also means that I do not think I'm guilty of anything some ancestor of mine may or may none have done either. Racial supremacy an racial guilt politics are stupid. I mean, should I beat up anyone I meet who's English because my ancestors spent 700 years eating shit under the heels of Britain? Obviously not. Does that mean that because I share the skin color of those who kept people of color in chains that I should pay reparations to their living descendants, who are not now and never been slaves themselves? Again I think not. Living with that kind of hate just poisons you, and grudges like that are stupid because they are not about moving forward.
When it comes to this issue, no member of the Opposition has ever offered me a serious answer as to how removing statues, outlawing flags, labeling people racist who are not, and changing street names will move anyone forward, bring them out of poverty, insure economic justice, undo past wrongs, ect. The only answers appear to be symbolic ones, which are utterly worthless and solve nothing. Worse, they play right into the hands of those who seek to divide this country and make us all their puppets in one form or another.
When it comes to this flag issue, a more meaningful way to end it is to simply reject the view of it that people like Roof and other racists have. The only power they have is what we give to them. We reject that view, teach the truth, that the flag belongs to ALL Southerners. Someday I believe that wrongful misuse of the flag will be irrelevant because nobody will take it seriously, and it will disappear entirely.
Well, I don't know if I answered your questions well enough. I suspect I went on a bit long and its an hour past my usual bedtime so any spelling or punctuation errors you can write off as loopiness LOL!
Again thank you for your words and I hope the response was helpful. If you feel the need to write again on another post here, that would be good. Though you could give me some handle to go by other than just anonymous in the future. (Anything but Carlos Spiceyweiner though, he he sorry Family Guy joke).
Interesting stuff. As a Massachusetts Yankee I am still amazed at the foolishness of this witch hunt against you U.S. Confederates and your Rebel Battle Flag. Anybody with sense should know that Flag is one of the most enduring, endearing and most inspiring of all US symbols. Now the PC lunatics are going after the John L. Cook company 'cuz the Argentina company uses the Rebel Flag as a logo. Total witch hunt craziness.
Just an FYI, I've been battling online for the Confederate team from early on in this thing and dubbed a 'copperhead' on one of the Facebook pages in the Confederate Facebook Fleet. Now that the Confederate Flag Stealers page got sunk like the Arizona at Pearl Harbor things are a little slower but the PC lies keep chugging on. So we have to keep fighting the good fight.
There's really no middle ground on this. The Confederate Flag stays as a symbol of Southern Pride or the entire US loses everything... all our US history, heritage, shared beliefs... everything. The PC fascists aren't stopping with the Confederate Flag, they want to destroy it all.
I have argued for years that there were black slaveowners, a few of whom owned large plantations with hundreds of slaves, that there were tens of thousands of blacks who fought for the Confederate cause, & that there are many blacks even TODAY who display the Confederate flag with pride. Thank you for making the point in photographs much more eloquently than I have.
Not just the Southern flag, but the US Flag, the Gadsden Flag, and even the POW-MIA flag are all under assault. So are monuments to US and Confederate veterans.
I think in many ways, since this latest witch hunt began, the PC Establishment realized that its sycophants went a bit too far going after all these things at once. And now its all coming back to bite them hard.
The Anti-Southern heritage reactionaries made a huge mistake here, and in doing so they irrevocably tied themselves and their view of that flag to monsters like Roof, white supremacists and how those people view that flag -- against good Southern people of all races and creeds like those in the photos above who simply won't stand to be labeled anymore by self-righteous Leftist tools.
The people in the photos, regardless of what color their skin, all share either Southern blood, or pride in Southern-Confederate identity and heredity. Whites. Blacks, Hispanic/Latino. Jewish. Native. Those are just labels. Southern is not just a point of the compass, its an attitude and something that exists in your blood. Its a deep spiritual connection to the land and the culture.
Those folks in the photos understand that, and are fighting a great cause for individual identity - something the PC culture police would deny us all for the sake of fascist-type social conformity. That Southern people from all walks of life are willing to take a moral stand against white supremacist and racial guilt idealism shows just how deep those roots go; and just how much the Establishment underestimated all of us.
Thank you for the post Ray Thorne, keep up the good fight.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
This is from the Communist Manifesto of 1963. Does it describe the current situation?
Ray check out H.K. Edgerton, a black defender of the Confederate Flag. A former head of the North Carolina NAACP and he has a Facebook page. Byron Thomas is another well known defender. The late Anthony Hervey is in the photos, killed after a pro-Confederate Flag rally. The "Hervey Equation" is simple "White Guilt = Black Oppression".
For straight, shoot from the hip talk check out Morris Lee Mires. Do not mess with the heritage of that black dude in the straw hat.
C.W. I just saw some PC are planning a "burn the US Flag" event for 9/11. It's like living with ISIS. And it's not just Democrats saying the Rebel Flag is racist, so it's a bigger battle.
Living up here in the PC Brain Cloud capitol I've learned their methods, how to combat them and predict their likely behavior. They're very much like the Borg in Star Trek TNG. That's why I'm working on a more sci-fi story approach to blast the little devils. While the PC fascists are busy trashing the past there's an opportunity to seize control of the sci-fi future and totally freak them out. Think of it as the revenge of the pro-Confederate nerds. Here's one idea I've come up with as a seed to get into the proper mindset...
"Reliable military sources reveal the Obama administration used a wormhole, “ER-13”, to make first contact with the future. Physical transport through ER-13 isn’t possible. However, gamma ray based signals travelling through ER-13 enabled limited two-way communication. Valuable information about the Futurite Galaxy was obtained.
Posing as a future culture seeking only commonly known data, the administration asked the Futurites for the best example of a durable Earth idea that had galaxy wide benefits.
The stunned President was furious when the Futurites’ response was the ghostly image of a Confederate Flag."
Johnathan, it does indeed. Right out of an Orwellian socialist playbook. This stuff reminds me all to much of one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes: The Obsolete Man. A group of elitists picking and choosing what is acceptable and what - and whom - is obsolete.
Stephen, I like the way you think dude. The Borg approach is pretty much how I view Leftists: all drones ruled by a queen (in this case a Northeastern Liberal Establishment that virtually controls pop culture and media in this country).
I think your story idea is interesting. You should try to write something up and submit it to a publisher. I myself and working on an alternate history version of the War Between The States and a couple of sci-fi/young adult novels (think The Maze or Hunger Games-type deals).
And you are certainly right, it is a much bigger battle than just Confederate flags and monuments. US monuments, the POW-MIA flag, statues of Thomas Jefferson, ect. are all on the chopping block. But fortunately for us, the Leftists made a huge mistake going after it all at once and the backlash is catching up to them.
H.K Edgeron, Byron Thomas (whom I know personally) and the late Mr. Hervey are just a few activists and honorable men.
Many of the other folks in the photos (whites, blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, ect) are all just regular Southern and American folks like you and me who are sick of being labeled, of having our individuality stripped and mocked by a bunch of Establishment puppets. Nearly all of the photos have been taken over the last two months since the latest attempt at purging America of its history began, and more folks are joining the fight. Not just Southern symbols, but American identity as many of us define it are on the line.
C.W. Try to avoid using the PC names for folks. It's part of how the PC Brain Cloud works in the background to bias minds and the conversations with a sneaky use of language as a weapon. PC terms such as "Native American" are designed to subjugate.
"American" is always put last in PC terms to demote the US by putting "American" in last place. American Indians fought in the War Between the States, the PC rewrite history to their tactical advantage by saying "Native Americans" fought in that war.
Before my Facebook presence got vaporized in the PC assault on Facebook people and pages like the Confederate Flag Stealers the nickname I was flying by was Manturtle Gambone. Among some US Indian tribes this continent is "Turtle Island". Christopher Columbus 'discovered' the TiFi, Turtle island's First immigrants.
"Native American" is actually a subtle, racist term that disrespects TiFi cultural beliefs. It places them before the land, the Turtle Island part of the Mother Earth they belong to.
C.W. like the Founders of this Nation I'm trained in the Euclidean way of thinking, For two thousand years the Euclideans were a force for good that advanced the human race and battled the witch hunters. That was before the dark empire of Statistics took over the mathematical minds. All of that makes me something like the Three Stooges version of Yoda.
As for any of us getting published right now we've gotta problem with all the bans on Confederate stuff on places such as Amazon. I'd suggest self-publishing where each of us starts out with free online samples of our stories to build an audience. A Graphic Novel might work for your alternate history idea.
If my math trained, Euclidean brain is correct in its analysis, the US retail economy is already tanking. The Southern boycott of Walmart has cost that company billions. And even more billions of dollars have shifted in a seismic retail quake that's off the charts huge. Last summer's big story was the Market Basket boycott in the Northeast and that pales in comparison in size to this summer's Confederate Flag related boycotts.
We're living through a Star Trek IV scenario where the big warning comes from the UN to avoid investing or visiting the US. Some innocent kid from Argentina with a John L. Cook Rebel Flag shirt could get beaten up at any minute. Anti-Confederate companies are destabilizing the US retail sector. As a result Wall Street money will get sucked out of the US like an alien probe sucking water out of the ocean. And it doesn't look like singing whaling tunes will fix things any time soon.
Right now I am working on a sci-fi/adventure novel that really doesn't have anything to do with the War or flag issues - hell, its set on Mars in the 23rd century - and I don't anticipate any real trouble with getting it published (at least aside from the usual issues, of course).
The alternate history novel I am working on getting published in some online sci-fi mags, or might put in chapter sections online. I have several interesting alternate-history story ideas, including one where Benedict Arnold did not turn traitor and instead was given credit for winning the Battle of Saratoga and later given command of the Southern Campaign in 1780 instead of Horatio Gates. Another has Napoleon Bonaparte escaping Elba and coming to the US instead of back to France and fighting with the US forces against the Brits in the Battle of New Orleans. Another has Manfred Von Richthofen survive being shot down in 1918 - being taken prisoner and learning to appreciate British hospitality - and surviving to defect from Germany after Hitler takes over and fight with the British forces in the Battle of Britain.
As for the rest sir, I believe that a big turn around is coming hard. The more the Left pushes, the harder the slap will be when it comes.
I do get what you mean, though I only use the term for the sake of expedience and also because (other than "Indian" which is also offensive) it is one of the few that any low-information reader will get if they visit this site. Normally when I discuss American tribes, I would do so by their tribal names: Cherokee, Catawba, Choctaw, ect. but there were over a dozen tribes who sent people to the Confederate armies - Five Tribes in the Indian Territory (Oklahoma) and half a dozen smaller tribes across the Southland.
The same when I use the terms "Hispanic" and "Latino" as general terms rather than listing about a dozen Mexican and Cuban provinces and cultural names.
To be honest, I do not really regard the skin color of another person, or racial identity as a factor in Confederate ancestry or the labeling of groups today. As far as I am concerned there is no difference between a boy or girl from Brazil who honors Confederate ancestry, or a boy or girl from Georgia or Virginia who does. And as the photos clearly show, skin color is far less of a factor than the Establishment bigots would have most people believe. Their reliance of stereotyping and group-think idealism is a weakness that will someday be a factor in their inevitable downfall, as well as the final downfall of white supremacist ideology itself.
C.W.,
Saw one of your comments on a website recently. Here is the latest assault in Virginia: The City Council of Alexandria, VA has basically "created a study" to see about renaming the many streets in Alexandria (boyhood home of Robert E. Lee) that are named after Confederate leaders/generals:
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/breaking_ground/2015/09/how-many-confederacy-tied-alexandria-streets-can.html
The main drag through Alexandria is Jefferson Davis Hwy, also known as Rt. 1, but there are many other streets and a statue besides. This is happening all over the South. Please post in case anyone wants to give feedback or sound off:
To reach the Mayor and Members of City Council, call 703.746.4500, or send a group e-mail to the Mayor and Members of City Council . To email a Member or Aide individually, use the links within each bio below. Biographical information presented here is provided by City Council staff.
http://request.alexandriava.gov/CCC/#tab=Departments&group=MayorandCityCouncil&service=CNC_GROUP
Thanks, I think they are going to do what they want to anyway - they want to take Virginia out of South.
Allesia
I know about it Allesia and I thank you for posting the information to contact these folks.
These attacks on symbols of Confederate history and heritage are not new. They have been going on in earnest for nearly 25 years now. It is tragic that symbols of history are the targets of cultural vandals and historical revisionists with an unsavory politically correct political agenda.
I have long been an advocate of proper education on this subject to teach people that history - good and bad - cannot simply be banished to a corner in some dusty museum, or locked away in a closet.
Nor is it morally just to expect Confederate descendants, no matter who they are, to be forced to conform to a viewpoint that calls their ancestors traitors and racists without recognition of any positive aspect of that heritage or its symbols for what they are today.
I wish to see the day that flag is forever torn from the grasps of those who use it only to create hate and fear based on outmoded ideals of racial supremacy or racial guilt. The folks in these photos all share that same view and stand against those evils and PC censorship. We are far from alone and far from a minority in this country and the world at large.
Again thank you for your post Allesia.
C.W. Just a quick FYI. Here's a news story out of Georgia about the Confederate Flag coming back on a license plate.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/group-wants-confederate-flag-back-on-ga-license-plate/35474080
This article is ridiculous. All the "The South Will Rise Again" stickers and shirts are what are annoying because they imply the South will rise up or rebel again. Please just accept that Southerners are Americans *and* from the South. You don't need a flag to proclaim your heritage, and you certainly don't need that one. It's for the same reason you don't wear all white and a white cone hood for Halloween... it can mean to you whatever you want it to mean, but it's still widely associated with extreme racism.
Okay, let's start with the first of your incoherent rants here:
"The South Will Rise Again" stickers and shirts? Huh? I did a quick re-check of the photos posts to look for said stickers and shirts....found none. I guess you either flipped through them too fast without look closely, or you're just projecting.
If you read my blog, you would be quite aware that I DO in point of fact accept that Southerners are Americans. In fact I go out of my way to stress that to uber-patriot wingnuts who insist that anyone who honors that flag cannot be a "real" American.
No you don't need a flag to proclaim your heritage, but then again we express how we respect our heritage in our own way. It is not up to you or folks like you to set the standards by which someone should or should not honor who they are.
Actually, I did know someone who wore all-white for Halloween. She was going as Baymax from the Disney film "Big Hero 6" and I once dressed as the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters for a Halloween party....so your claims I would not wear all white on Halloween are plain silly.
And finally, the very end of your absurd claims and their falsehoods can be seen in the photos above. Believe me the number of people who view that flag with "extreme racism" are few and far between compared to the vast majority who do not....and trust me, the latter number is growing more and more, while the former is dying out.
Thank you for your comments, such as they were. Have a Happy Holiday Season!
You come off as and idiot. Learn something before you post. Jews fought in great numbers and with great pride for the Confederacy .
" Once I went on a tour in Richmond, and they said that Jefferson Davis even had a Jewish Secy of State serving in the Conf. Gov., and that despite antisemitism "
THIS IS NEWS TO YOU ?????????????????????????????
There was almost 0 anti semitism in the South
The anti semitism was in the North
The Hebrew Confederate cemetery in Richmond, Virginia, is the only Jewish military cemetery in the world outside the State of Israel.
The largest ethnic group to serve the Confederacy, , was made up of first-, second- and third-generation Jewish lads. Old Jewish families, initially Sephardic and later Ashkenazic, had settled in the South generations before the war. Jews had lived in Charleston, S.C., since 1695. By 1800, the largest Jewish community in America lived in Charleston, where the oldest synagogue in America, K.K. Beth Elohim, was founded. By 1861, a third of all the Jews in America lived in Louisiana. More than 10,000 Jews fought for the Confederacy. As Rabbi Korn of Charleston related, "Nowhere else in America - certainly not in the Antebellum North - had Jews been accorded such an opportunity to be complete equals as in the old South." Gen. Robert E. Lee allowed his Jewish soldiers to observe all holy days, while Gens. Ulysses S. Grant and William T. Sherman issued anti-Jewish orders.
I COULD GO ON BUT I cannot believe how someone can know so little about history and post on the subject.
Review the Union Generals and their anti semitism.
THANK YOU SIR (um, you are a "sir" aren't you?) for your excellent post!
You are quite correct about the large number of Jewish Confederates and the manner in which Jewish people were treated in the antebellum Baptist and Methodist South as opposed to the strictly Puritan anti-Semitic Northern States.
Judah P. Benjamin was treated with the greatest respect by his Southern peers for his brilliant statesmanship. I almost think it would have been better for the CSA politically had he been the Confederate President rather than Jeff Davis who was both uncompromising and rigid; not to mention the fact Davis himself would have rather served as a general in the field than as president in the first place. As a military officer Davis was good in the Mexican War.
One really good and detailed book I would like to highly recommend to folks is "The Jewish Confederates" by Robert N. Rosen (ISBN 1-57003-363-3). The details in it are really eye opening.
YOU LOST A$$HOL !! Your precious flag is STILL a symbol of TRAITORS to our country & racial hatred. You people will NEVER amount to anything! You and your for-fathers are lazy good for nothins, who enslaved people to do YOUR work for you ! NOTHIN GOOD EVER CAME OUT OF THE SOUTH !!!
Great, and how were they treated AFTER the war by your precious KLAN ?
Let's go ahead and address your inane, incoherent rant step-by-step, shall we?
Unknown SJW Pinhead: "YOU LOST A$$HOL !!"
I lost? I?
Um....wow dude, this might come as a shock to you, maybe bust that very small bubble you live in, but I didn't fight in the War, nor am I pushing 155+ years old.
Also even though you substituted dollar signs for the letter "s" in what I presume is the term "asshole" (which you could have actually written given this is an uncensored blog) you still failed to properly spell that particular pejorative.
Unknown SJW chicken shit continues: "Your precious flag is STILL a symbol of TRAITORS to our country & racial hatred."
Well, that might come as a huge shock to the number of Southern-born US Service men and women who display that flag even while overseas in foreign countries defending this country and your freedom to make asinine statements. They certainly don't consider it treason, and obviously both the people in the photos above - not to mention about 57% of Americans in general (according the USA Today polls) do not see the flag as either racist or treasonous.
Let me guess, when others went off to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2003, you were waving a sign attacking our US service people, and then later on when someone you liked became President you "rediscovered" patriotism? How nice for you.
Mr. Lives At Home With Sailor Moon Figurines On His Shelf continues: "You people will NEVER amount to anything!"
You people? (blinks) What exactly do you mean by "you people" dude? I don't think you have a clue who "we people" are, and you are acting out as a cover for your own sense of personal "guilt" and fear. I'd suggest getting out of your parent's basement once in awhile and getting out in the sunshine and interacting with the world and real people for a bit. There is more to life than anime and snackfood...yeah I was shocked too.
Obsessed SJW Keyboard Warrior continues: "You and your for-fathers are lazy good for nothins, who enslaved people to do YOUR work for you !"
Once again I think I made the point that I am NOT in fact over 155+ years old, so I didn't enslave anyone....oh wait, you are using a collectivist tense! Oh wow, that explains everything, for a moment there I thought you were uh....well, that I was dealing with someone in the double-digit IQ spectrum. Now I get ya! Collectivist tenses are the realm of poor academics and group-think Tools.
Regardless you also know nothing of my family's history, presume too much, and your poor spelling shows again. Spell it out with me: F-O-R-E-F-A-T-H-E-R-S.
And finally the Epic-Failure-Of-A-Reasoned-Human-Being concludes with: "NOTHIN GOOD EVER CAME OUT OF THE SOUTH !!!"
No you're right, nothing good ever came out of the Glorious American Southland....well, except for, oh: sweet tea, Jazz music, pecan pie, George Washington, Robert E. Lee, Booker T. Washington, Martin Luther King Jr., Coca-cola and other soft drinks, NASCAR, air travel, space flight, peaches....and about a thousand other people and things that are a huge part of American culture as a whole. Oh and let's also not forget that were it not for Southern Patriots during the Southern Campaign of the American Revolutionary War and their efforts in 1780-82, there would be NO UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AT ALL.
Going down to your level of collectivist thinking: You're welcome.
Well, overall you're lack of coherence and misinformed ranting amused me. You ever want another pwning again, please feel free to come back again now, ya hear? LMAO!
Wow how do I answer such a really asinine question? Maybe with the following answer:
None of the people in the photos above are 150 years or older, so I seriously doubt that they were treated anyway, shape or form by the Klan that existed after the War.
Also, point of correction, I - and just about every other legitimate Southern heritage defender in existence today - reject the philosophies and ideology of the modern-day Ku Klux Klan. People and cultures do move forward...at least those who don't promote racial supremacists or regressive social "just us" idealism.
Well C.W. a lot's happened over the last year and I've learned quite a bit thanks to people like you and countless other present day Confederates. I have a math trained brain and, just like in the sci-fi stories, mathematics can be used as a universal translator.
That "the South Will Rise Again" slogan needs a bit of an update because present day people lost some of the original intent and often misinterpret the meaning.
The most accurate modern translation is "The South Will Always Rise to the Occasion Again."
That's why you True Confederates are the most pro-US people on the planet. Whenever the original intent of the Founders is threatened you true Confederates are the ones who defend it. That's what the War Between the States was about... preserving the original intent of the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union Between the States.
And now we face the ultimate test. Black Lives Matter is the Fifth Reich where blacks are being used just like the Union used its Black Soldiers, as human shields. PC white people are the driving force behind the scenes, empowering the BLM Fifth Reich. White faces in the background, Black faces in the foreground's greatest danger zone.
We've got some serious problems in this battle C.W. and we might have to start an online "Top Gun" school for posting comments against this Nazi plague.
The PC Nazis have control of the media, aided by PC Politicians on the left and right, and the PC Public to boot. The fascist war on cops has killed hundreds. That's according to a Federal Agent's LTE published up here in response to the assassination of Officer Tarentino.
Just like with the Third Reich there's an Axis of powers hellbent on destroying the US. BLM is part of an ISIS-America movement where vast Policing resources are redirected away from terrorism to appease the Fifth Reich Nazis... and that ain't good.
Do any of you Confederates have a plan for dealing with this not so little problem of Nazis running the country?
After the war, GEN Robert "Bobby" Lee once stated, when asked what to do with the Confederate Battle flag: 'Fold it up and put it away.' 1. "Lee did not want such divisive symbols following him to the grave. At his funeral in 1870, flags were notably absent from the procession. Former Confederate soldiers marching did not don their old military uniforms, and neither did the body they buried." 2. "So sensitive was Lee during his final years with extinguishing the fiery passions of the Civil War that he opposed erecting monuments on the battlefields where the Southern soldiers under his command had fought against the Union. “I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavoured to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered,” he wrote." http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/15/even-robert-e-lee-wanted-the-confederate-flag-gone.html
Additionally: "Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America during the American Civil War and noted reluctant secessionist, wrote in his 1881 apologia The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government: "My pride is that that flag shall not set between contending brothers; and that, when it shall no longer be the common flag of the country, it shall be folded up and laid away like a vesture no longer used." Jenny Horne, a descendent of Jefferson Davis and Republican member of the South Carolina House of Representatives, was instrumental in finally bringing down the flag. When speaking to the house on Wednesday, she said: "I cannot believe that we do not have the heart in this body to do something meaningful such as take a symbol of hate off these grounds." What wasn't immediately apparent was that she was to some degree echoing the words of her Confederate forefather." https://www.bustle.com/articles/96114-robert-e-lee-and-jefferson-davis-wanted-the-confederate-flag-to-come-down-in-the-1800s
NO picture of Dave Tatum ?????
I thought we was buddies !
Okay, I will bite on this one. Let's go through this tiresome litany step by step, shall we?
(1) Please provide a credible source that shows that General Lee himself actually stated the battle flag should be put away, or even made any statement about the flag after April 9, 1865 at all. I seriously doubt one exists, so I would appreciate it if you would not offer regressive, anti-Confederate heritage reactionary propaganda.
The reason there were no Confederate flags at Lee's funeral in 1780 would be because...oh yes, the State of Virginia was under Federal occupation and martial law, meaning that any display of the flag would never have been permitted by what was then the regular authorities of the time. Nor would the former Confederate soldiers have been permitted to wear their uniforms -- indeed the United Confederate Veterans were not allowed to wear their uniforms until the end of the Reconstruction Era. Good try though.
(2) First of all allow me a belly-laugh over the fact you sited the Daily Beast as a credible source of information....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Well, taking the source for the statement for what it is worth allow me to point out the obvious flaw in your logic. Lee stated that the erecting monuments ON THE BATTLEFIELDS THEMSELVES was something he opposed in favor of reconciliation at the time right after the War itself. Note that nothing NOTHING is stated by Lee opposing the erection of Confederate monuments over grave sites, or town squares, ect.
Let me repeat: At battlefields, not at graves.
I would also point out the obvious fact that the Union Veterans erected monuments at the battlefields themselves at the same time that Confederate Veterans did, again after Reconstruction and during the time of national reunification. The fact that this has been peacefully done since the 1880s until the current (dying) age of Politically Correct fascism pretty much negates the worries Lee had of creating civil strife -- pity that some of the descendants of those Union men today can't follow the examples of their own ancestors who actually fought the War.
Now that you go on to President Davis and his statement, allow me to again point out your obvious mistakes there.
Let's begin with your point that his book is "apologia" shall we? If that is how you Davis' accounts, then why take his statement at face value? If you yourself cannot accept the rest of the content as factual, then why accept the quoted statement. Indeed, considering that Davis himself attended several gatherings of the United Confederate Veterans after the end of the Reconstruction Era -- gatherings that included BOTH US AND CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAGS -- the idea that Davis saw the US flag as anything less than the flag of a united country and the battle flag as strictly the soldiers' banner makes a bit more sense, and does nothing to contradict the strict letter of the quote he made. You seem to be reading symbolism and taking it a wee bit too seriously my friend.
Another obvious possibility is that in making that statement, Davis himself was not referring to the battle flag of the Confederate Army of N. Virginia, but rather one of the Confederate national banners -- which for obvious reasons do not stand for any nation that still exists.
Now then since you seem to have run out of historical figures, you turn to a more modern Don Quixote-type figure, the FORMER Republican SC Representative Jenny Horne....who by the way was NOT a descendant of President Jefferson V. Davis, but rather another man named Davis. This little detail is sloppy research, one easily corrected here:
http://kerfuffles.blogspot.com/2015/07/is-jenny-horne-descendant-of-jeff-davis.html
Your final statements about her connections to Davis and what has been demonstrated to be a falsehood about his alleged desires on the flag as told in your misinformed response is therefore invalid.
And finally, the removal of the flag from a Confederate soldier's monument was not a "meaningful act" and did nothing at all to combat hatred and oppression. Far from it in fact. It is a well documented fact both on this blog and by many Confederate heritage advocates that any acceptance of the wrong-thinking view that the flag is a symbol of hatred is in and of itself a PRO-WHITE SUPREMACIST VIEWPOINT. To put it in simple terms: to accept how white racist misused the flag as a symbol of hatred when other say it is not so is the same as giving tact approval to said racists and accepting said misuse and all the pain caused by the same. In short: if you think it is accurate to let a white supremacist wave that flag and shout racial slurs then you are no better than if you were shouting the same slurs yourself, no matter what your intentions truly are. That is how history will judge those who continue to express this view....and recent elections seem to be leaning toward that very historical judgment for the Opposition.
Thank you for your response to the post on this blog. It has been really fun to dispel more anti-Confederate heritage reactionary propaganda and present the truth, as always.
Dude, I would do so, but if I did I'd also be obligated to post an obscenity warning before it in case I ended up unintentionally giving some kid writing a term paper nightmares.
LOL kidding David.
Folks you can see David's obscenely gruesome visage and other things he likes at his blog: atrueconfederate -- the link to which can be found on the right side of this blog page under Carl's Favorite Links. Be sure to check it out and drop some comments there also.
Well written my friend. I love it when we’ll thoughout folk like yourself, can make sense of the self-righteous, close minded, NPC-SJW drivel, which get put foreword on issues such as this. I renews my faith in truth and liberty.
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